SOFB: Thank you for joining us. Please provide us with a brief background as to how you began your Bardon training.
ANDRE: Thank you for the honor! I had been introduced to spiritism (in particular Allan Kardec and some spiritist centers from Portugal), theosophy (in particular Alice Bailey), some new age movements (in particular the Ascended Masters), to Omraam Mikhaël Aïvanhov and the Great White Brotherhood (not to be confused with the new age approach to ascended masters) and to a first deeper approach to hermeticism in particular through the works of Aleister Crowley and the Golden Dawn in general. I had also known the works of Papus and Eliphas Levi and had some knowledge of the basis of Martinism. I had studied The Mystical Qabalah by Dion Fortune very carefully, making many notes. I had run into all these things due to family issues regarding the so-called supernatural and mediumistic phenomena, and due to my own occurrences. I saw spooks since I could remember, colors in sounds emitted by people coming out from different parts of their bodies, had some memories I couldn’t figure out what they were, and was receiving esoteric information in dreams and later while wide awake. I couldn’t control or even begin to know what this all was, and I wanted to know, and to have control. It was a blinding need, not only in the sense of a survival urge, which it also was, but an exhilaration, a first feeling of returning home. Then a member from Fraternitas Hermetica, after hearing me speak on Crowley’s methods and, on the other side, on so-called ascended masters, sent me Initiation Into Hermetics by Franz Bardon. He said Bardon was much better, the appropriation of the ascended masters was mischievous and Crowley’s works could definitely go the wrong way. I didn’t take that very lightly, so I accepted the challenge of reading Bardon’s book to compare.
After reading it, I immediately realized I had outstanding material in my hands, but I went to this person who had given me the book and told him “this is good, but it isn’t better”. I was still a minor, and had this defiant joviality in me. He didn’t argue his case, which I was expecting he would, and it kind of set me off my balance, like a Tai Chi move. During the night I began to argue with myself, a thing he hadn’t done, and I decided IIH was probably the best practical book I had gotten my hands on. The next day I decided to test this person, who later became my initiator. I told him “The only problem with this book is that it misses an essential point, it seems to focus more on the work of will-power than on love, yet, only love can balance and harmonize the four elements”. He told me he understood that I might choose to think so, but that in his opinion love can only be balanced by will, and that even to love we must first have the power to love. His logic was better, then I started practicing, and he caught me along the way.
SOFB: As you have written some books and written extensive articles I shall keep my basic questions brief.
Please explain your preferred approach to VOM and what you see as its ultimate benefit.
ANDRE: Vacancy of Mind is the cornerstone of IIH. Some might say it is working with the soul mirror, which I can understand. But from my experience, those who can’t master vacancy of mind will always get poor results while working with the soul mirror. If one truly masters VOM, all that stands in the way of our belief and determination can simply be erased. Yes, if one is able to fix one’s thoughts on a single thought, things that might distract him from this thought stop distracting him. It means such distracting thoughts are not on the front panel of the mind nor are they allowed to come in there, so to speak. But with VOM, there are no front and back panels, you get the whole view, and when thoughts stop coming, that is when you truly know you have control over anything, or better put, over the mind. For instance, when one doubts, and asks while pore breathing “is this true vitality or just my imagination of true vitality?” one is losing vitality. If he removes this thought of doubt entirely, instead of simply not being distracted by it, he immediately starts to build true vitality.
To highlight the importance of VOM, especially in its relation to the Soul Mirror, I like to remember the story of the Three Little Pigs. The big bad wolf is made visible by the black soul mirror, it starts to visibly peek around for its three little pigs, wanting to consume body, soul and mind. Sensations are very unstable, the pig of the body builds his house on them. Feelings are less unstable but still fragile, the pig of the soul builds its house with them. The pig of the mind doesn’t build his house on thoughts, mere mental imitations of sensations and feelings, automatisms, he builds his house on vacancy, the stuff of the mind. The big bad wolf of vice sweeps over the house of sensation, it all goes to ashes, but what lived inside sensations survives in the house of feelings. Then it is time for the bad wolf to test the house of feelings, and the soul (that was living in the house of feelings) and consciousness (that was living in the house of sensations and then in the house of feelings) survive in the purity of mind (whose quantity is the vacancy of mind).
Sure, in the story, the big bad wolf doesn’t give up when he sees he can’t bring down the house of the mind, he tries to enter it from above, and that is when the fire of the spirit hits him.
I hope what I have told here can be understood. One can also bring his attention to the story of Hercules and the Hydra. Before beating Hydra, Hercules was just an heroic personality, he wasn’t yet a true initiate. Hydra is the beast of thoughts, Hercules cuts one and two grow back in its place. It is when Hercules lifts the Hydra from the floor that she loses power, and he is able to dominate her. This means to portray that thoughts are but reflections of feelings and sensations, separate the mind from feelings and sensations, and the mind will be silent. Instead of feelings you will find love, the unity of feelings. Instead of sensations, bliss, the unity of sensations.
You can go about Bardon all you like, without VOM, it will all be useless in the end except for the personality and its stimulus.
I have attained VOM through many different methods over time, as some students cannot seem to do it the way I first did it. The way I first did it was very simple, to forcefully expel all thoughts and persist, until only electrical impulses were left, and then stilling the electrical impulses. In the end, there would be void compressing and transbundant light, and once that dynamic state is achieved, it is the other way around, you have to use your will-power to come back. Once this was mastered, I started practicing VOM with my eyes open, and then even while going about my business and while having conversations.
To many this first approach seems to be impossible, so, in my book the Way of Abrahadabra I use the greater capacity people apparently have of fixing their thoughts on a single subject or object. I start with simple thoughts and images, after which come complex images and thoughts, and then I begin to reduce the concepts that fit in the thoughts/images being used. Eventually, you are focusing on the thought and image of a single star in the void black sky. Then, you remove the star, and there is only vital vacancy.
SOFB: Vital Force, some struggle with feeling like they are truly absorbing anything. How can people truly experience a difference in their vitality and health from this pore breathing.
ANDRE: There are technical answers to this question, but I will use the opportunity to attack a bigger issue I see among students, for there is nothing essentially wrong with the technique exactly how Bardon puts it. A practitioner that intends to finish at least IIH must be prepared to truly believe the impossible. The question is, is he willing to? He is given the chance to do this very gradually, but still his commitment to the power of his mind must be whole all the while. Take hypnotism for instance, it only works on people who willingly give in to it, that is why Bardon so often writes “the magician will be able to convince himself”. He is not exactly talking about reason here. Now, many people fear believing what they thought was impossible because they associate it with the loss of reason and logic, with the loss of control. Nothing of the sort is requested at any time during IIH, on the contrary, reason is essential for the good judgement of how one chooses to use the limitless power of the mind, less the mind destroys itself in the blink of an eye. Power is force, but reason is its rider, and the rider must be sharp in his decisions.
SOFB: Elements, similar to the VF people wonder if they are really getting the element or just an expression of the element. What can they do to meet the true element.
ANDRE: I repeat the words above, but will now add another hint. Regarding the water and fire elements, Bardon talks of cold and heat, and that one can use a thermometer to test one’s success. Being able to physically raise the temperature or lower it is not essential for the effectiveness of the astral fluid, in most cases. The reason Bardon puts it there is, in my understanding, to make it easier for the magician to dissipate any doubts of his effectiveness, that is, to make him believe the power of his imagination, to make him believe the “impossible”, or better put, the possible after all. With vitality one can have the same kind of proof by studying if he is more vigorous in his day-to-day or if the sensation is but a fleeting one. Regarding Earth (heavy) and Air (light), I have not tried this, but I suppose one can use a weight scale.
SOFB: Gesture training is not discussed too much. Do you have any insight you can share.
ANDRE: Gesture training is a form of mnemonics attached to the movements of the body. A gesture attracts a thought, a feeling and a sensation, or is made to attract a particular thought, feeling and sensation by the magician. But more importantly, it is of a martial nature, it brings the thought, feeling and sensation of action into the previously chosen thought, feeling and sensation, so that they become active and, being active, act on their own. This is the power and might of ritual, while its virtue and quality, that defines its success, is also in what makes mnemonics work: harmony, beauty and universal law.
It is said that the rank of an adept can be seen in the perfection of the pentacles he devises, the same can be said about the creation of rituals and gesture sequences.
SOFB: Depth point perhaps one of my favorite areas, a massive stage for students moving from lower steps into some quite strange states of mind. What can you share about the depth point and its significance to our training.
ANDRE: Here is the second cornerstone, while VOM is the first. If without VOM anything done by the magician is but for the self gratification of personality (no matter how much he arranges his soul mirror to appear pretty in its surface), the depth point allows the magician to go beyond individuality (not to be confused with personality). This is the first time he starts to connect with cosmic power. Even if he is just testing the depth point of an object, he is understanding outside himself, and his consciousness has known the powers of fertility for the first time. This is what brings to the adept his celestial nature. And it is why Bardon’s and most hermetic adepts search for the divine powers, while many magical traditions of satanism stick to self deification many times (although there are exceptions) without ever knowing anything beyond their own belly buttons (this is still true when practicing consciousness transference, for any self is the self). Such magicians will be able to create elementaries of elementals, cosmic beings and demons, but won’t be met by elementals, angels or even demons.
SOFB Community: What were your foundational tools and/or experiences that opened up your magical abilities and capacity?
ANDRE: I am probably not the right person to answer this question. While many start this path to open up magical abilities and capacities, I started in order to control them.
SOFB Community: How would you suggest one fine tune the harmony between their 3 bodies more?
ANDRE: Art. There is much more to it, but art! Different forms of art, and then art that utilizes them all. For instance, physical exercise is good for the body, it may or may not be called an art, but we are not there yet. Giving oneself to one’s emotions is good to know the soul and how it outlasts its objects of attention through feeling. Thinking about things in depth is good to know the crates and surfaces of the mind. Now, dancing is definitely art, it connects the body and the soul. Martial arts is, as the name implies, undoubtedly art, and it connects the body to the mind. Painting connects the mind to the soul. Writing connects all the four qualities of the intellect together. These are mere examples. Performance and theatre can require a lot of all three bodies, failure comes when the three don’t act harmoniously. An actor or performer must know what he is doing, the process of what he is doing (cognition), the sense (logic) and underlying intention (will), or he won’t even be able to memorize it properly (memory). According to his script, he must have the proper feeling inside (allowing feelings the same dynamism of the mind) and be able to create sensations out of this feeling, in order to transpose it, communicate to the audience and show something on the outside. If one of these elements fail, the show lacks the sublime.
SOFB Community: How do you perceive shadow work and your tips/suggestions for healthy integration of one’s inner darkness?
ANDRE: A man that is whole is always able to communicate with an animal in a way that the animal understands, because he also understands the animal to start with. Because this man is whole, in a way, he is all. Even to such a man, there is use in integrating the shadows, for the harmonious region where he locates his consciousness, the center, is ever knowing, loving and penetrating the circle, and this is the sacred process of life. Not all are ready to do the shadow work consciously, and that is why I consider one of the jobs of the artist to conduct this process in others in a manner that is safe, so that the others can do it through contemplation: when they notice it is about them, sublimation has taken place already. To people who have enough psychological stability to do the shadow work consciously, it is essential for the growth of the soul. When we are young we think the shadows are under the bed or inside the closet, when we are adults we know the monsters are mostly inside us, but if we remove all obstacles (inner beds and closets) and meet them in open fields, they stop being monsters and show the secret of frailty, and in frailty, the tender mystery of love and self love.
As a mere example, I shall tell the story of a particular time when I evoked death. I was obsessed with this feeling of death around me and in my body, I started to have insomnia and anxiety because of it and I came to talk with a friend that is or was the head of René Guenon’s organization in Portugal. He told me to drink tea with death and engage in conversation. I did as he suggested, and death was actually very kind, wise and compassionate, she had the most peaceful and healthy counsels to give, and she had been warning me, through the senses, of things that I had been doing unwisely and that I had been unwilling to recognize. From there on, I slept better.
But to go back to how I started (to the animals) a good way to work with the shadows is finding them, understanding them (outer shape, inner shape, silence), moving to their own depth point and transforming them into animals. Then one can start taming them lovingly and they can help us with their power. Shamanism can be a good additional tool regarding this method.
SOFB Community: It is common for some folk traditions to have practices surrounding the concept of ‘journeying’ in order to engage with spirits. Here I refer to those using drums or alike as trance induction methods, not entheogens. How would you relate those in regards to mental wandering as a way to engage with spirits as provided by Bardon? And why do you feel that engaging with spirits is not as much as a taboo for those traditions in comparison to those following Bardon system.
ANDRE: This is a merry topic of which I often think. It is important to note that hermeticism and shamanism are often opposite paths, not in their purpose, but in their approach. While hermeticism acts consciously in every step, and moves the conscious to conquer the unconscious, shamanism works the other way around: it seeks to tap into the subconscious and to integrate it into consciousness. The works are done in a semi conscious state, and the more they are done this way, the more the shaman is a genuine shaman. Mental wandering in shamanism is witnessed, and the shaman controls the journey through intentions he has previously established. He actualizes his acts mostly through the memory of instinct in the spirit, and the less reason interferes, the purer the outcome. Mental wandering in Bardon is of a conscious dynamic, the magician moves by will and reason.
I do not feel that engaging with spirits is a taboo among Bardon magicians, but for some reason it has almost always become a taboo among less tribal and larger civilizations. In those, in which hermeticism spams, men are not used to seeing the world through the lens of animism. They may find special spirits to represent certain principles, or that special things have spirits attached, but in shamanic cultures, literally everything is or has a spirit, and everything is equally special.
SOFB Community: From the different methods to engage with spirits provided by Bardon (e.g., mental wandering, evocation), which one you had most success with? And which one would you see as the most achievable for students coming into PME?
ANDRE: I had success with both. If by most achievable you mean easier, mental wandering is generally easier, and also a necessity for proper first time evocations. In any case, the magician should not stick with a single method, they are not two ways to reach the same. Evocation can achieve certain things mental wandering cannot, and vice-versa.
SOFB Community: The process of making consecrated tools is always a hot topic in grimoire based traditions. Some claim that every step should be followed to the letter while others are flexible to the point of skipping most of the tools. What’s your approach in regards to the preparation and consecration of magical tools when working with PME?
ANDRE: I remember an occasion when the chamber where Bardon used to work became inaccessible for some reason. During this time, Bardon practiced on his bed silently, with his wife on his side sleeping, one hour before she would wake up. This is an example he gave to his direct students. The important thing is to do the work, and to do it as we can and with what we can. That being said, if there is the possibility, when working with PME, work according to the instructions in PME, for it will maximize the performance. A little bit of the creative genius of the magician should be put into it, I remember Aleister Crowley speaking of carving different wands as the practice of creating, molding and giving life and realization to different dreams.
As an example of personal touch, I have a whip made of two wands (the handle) and a thin rope (binding the wands together) that cuts the air with an hiss when the wands are projected forward. The rope is the light of absolute victory, one wand controls the four elements, and the other the seven planets.
SOFB Community: When working with spirits, do you have a favorite method to keep yourself in check from self-delusions?
ANDRE: Yes, but it is not present in Bardon’s teachings. One must find that part of the astral light that personifies the subconscious of the magician, or the astral light that is being animated by the soul of the magician. By other words, it is simple astral light, in connection with the subtle channels of the magician (being observed by him and moving and expressing itself therefore). The magician must know this “plasmification” very well, in all ways possible, and make it obedient to him, so as not to have it interfere actively in his coming communications, in which it has to become a simple vehicle to original intelligence. When the magician dominates this intermediary, he will probably notice that many of his first acquaintances in the invisible world were different shapes the intermediary was taking.
SOFB Community: With the numerous books, esoteric schools, traditions and religions, how to keep a consistent practice and not become an armchair magician?
ANDRE: There is no such thing as an armchair magician, a magician either is a magician or he isn’t. One who studies magic instead of practicing it is simply a student or a theorist, but the magician, studying in his armchair or writing, is still a magician. There are many schools, traditions and religions, but how can they undermine consistent practice? Hermeticism was built upon this variety itself, it is the work of intelligence. I’m sure variety is no excuse, on the contrary.
SOFB Community: Correct practice of Prayer in our hermetic practices. In the normal use from most people, doesn't it imply that one is weak, and have a lack of what he's asking for, and is asking for a favour, or, begging for the end result ? From what state of awareness are we asking, and from where, and how receive the answer?
ANDRE: Who is “we”? There are so many different kinds of people. What is the “normal use”? Is lacking something being weak? Is asking for a favour always a bad decision? Whoever made this question, and those who identify with it, should answer the question posed: “from what state of awareness am I asking?” Now, remember, the waves in the sea are praying, the winds in the air are praying, the birds are praying, the lion is praying, the poets are praying, and they are all going beyond themselves.
SOFB Community: Tips or hints, on your prefered, or suitable to our practices, memory techniques for, archiving, structuring, categorizing our vast experiences, associations, analogies, data-bases. Ever used, Memory palace, Mind Maps, others ?
ANDRE: Yes I have. These are the foundations for building pentacles, so, in addition to them and according to them, build pentacles, build prayers, build astral temples, build rituals, build theatre plays and performances. Engage with them beyond the mind.
SOFB Community: What needs to be done to materialize our received visual and auditory impressions (images - sounds, melodies etc) projected outwardly outside of ourselves, condensed into physical visibility (even to others non-clairvoyant people), so as to record those images & sounds, with cameras, and audio-recorders (or any other means). All that without using our own voice, body, musical instruments, or softwares, to recreate them, meaning, without any further physical labour like painting, sculpting, music production etc. (Bardons mentions some things about lenses, but wondering if current digital ones can capture an outwardly projected visibly condensed image, wonder the same with the sounds)
ANDRE: About the right camera filters and fluid condensers, etc, I would go to the gnomes for information. Beyond that, I’m not really in the position to tell with great precision: if your work is intense it will probably be captured. I found that it helps when you are group-working with other capable magicians. At some point you will attune and start seeing exactly the same phenomena, it is a form of trance where the group seems to be on the physical plane still but that the physical plane has jumped to the astral plane. At this moment the cameras will find many anomalies, and cellphones will usually not work for a while, sometimes weeks (when they make it at all) after the magical ceremony. Well, that is according to my experience and that of my former group, years ago.
SOFB Community: Mediumship (with spirits, deities, etc), for learning: Physical skills, martial art, seems to be the best way, but the most physically draining of them all. If it's true, why is that a (high & capable) spirit commanding our bodies, is more depleting than us, that is our minds, commanding them ? Ways to offset any mediumship issues so as to handle them with the same energy expenditure as doing it yourself ?
ANDRE: First of all, high and capable spirits commanding our bodies will rarely leave it depleted, unless the task they are performing is asking a lot of our bodies’ capacity. When this is not the case, you will be refilled, vital, healed and refreshed after they leave. This is not because it is less draining having a new spirit in our body, with all the adaptations the body will undergo, than not, instead, it is because the spirit is high and capable enough to do us this gentleness.
About the last part of the question, channeling is always less demanding than incorporating. You are directly moved by the beings’ inspiration, but your mind and soul are still in your body.
SOFB Community: How to go about the process of imbuing a quantity (vital, fluids, etc), with our intention, purpose, ideation? Do we condense firstly the quantity and then put the ideation, inside as a sort of seed, maybe outside surrounding it, other? Do we imagine the final result of our ideation, as a still image, or as a moving gif-image (would certain results need the gif?).
ANDRE: When working physically, like using fire to burn a paper, burying a potato, as Bardon teaches on low magic, or for the creation of golems, the method uses quantity impregnated by quality. The astral volt uses electric fluid first and then the magnetic fluid, and it builds the quantity upon the quality. Both ways work. Use the perfect still image together with the perfect moving image, according to the principle of the rose and the cross.
SOFB Community: Does the intention, purpose, ideation, part, always has to have a visual sort of image, or other sensory gates and modalitites can be also utilized, like inner mind chatter, others?
EX: For beginners, how to go about and recreate those feelings (that sound bit abstract, unfamiliar), that you had mentioned in an article of: "high cognition, good memory, fertility, feeling of purification, etc", so as to imbue them?
ANDRE: For the first part: use all you can, the visualization is the creation of a complete world in a complete moment. For the second part, if someone has not a keen mind for the abstract, let him study more magic and philosophy first, and read poetry. The abstract must stop being unfamiliar.
SOFB Community: Do we imagine them as visual images and states of ourselves, and then emotionally engage in those imagined states, so to create those feelings?
ANDRE: You must search what works for you. Be creative and explore as much as you can. Many different approaches work. For instance, if you are more visual the way you put it is fine, but if you are more sensitive, you engage emotionally and it will give you the visual input. The ideal is to have equilibrium, and to be highly sensitive and highly visual, so that the visual and the feeling don’t come one after the other, but simultaneously.
SOFB Community: How to cultivate unshakable conviction, and faith, in our minds, correctly, asap?
Do they have to do with the accumulation of always successful - repetitions. Other ?
ANDRE: To hurry breeds imperfection. Being always successful doesn’t help faith and conviction, because it isn’t success at all. Success grows against failure and it requires stamina and perseverance. Being successful enough times to know one can succeed is good for conviction, it gives a certain level of positive certainty to reason and judgement, but faith is another game, it is a state of trance that dispenses all limitations, their conceptions and their judgement.
SOFB Community: Trulkhor, Tummo, Inner heat yogas, the subtle channels and the vital energies. Do those practices hold any overall value, and do we have equivalent practices in hermetics, if to substitute for?
ANDRE: Before writing Initiation Into Hermetics, Franz Bardon translated Book Four (Liber ABA) by Aleister Crowley into Czech. I suggest the reading of this book (in whatever language), it will make it clear that many foundational exercises by Bardon are based on different forms of Yoga.
SOFB Community: Can one safely pore-breathe(inhale-exhale) vital energy in industrial, IT, and tech environments, with dozens of WiFi, RF, EMF fields, static electricity. What can one do in such places to protect his health ? (besides finding a better job, hah)
ANDRE: If someone can breathe there by normal means, he will be able to breathe there consciously. We are always pore-breathing anyway, just not always consciously. The material air is not the idea that we are breathing consciously, and it won’t undermine our work. Bardon writes:
“The electrical as well as the magnetical fluid in the human body have nothing to do with the
kind of electricity or magnetism we know, although a certain analogy exists.”
He adds: “By normal or unconscious breathing, the body is supplied only with as much elemental substance as is necessary for its normal preservation. Here also the supply depends on the consumption of elemental substance. It is quite different with conscious breathing. If we put a thought, an idea or an image, no matter whether it is concrete or abstract, in the air
to be inhaled, it will take in the akasa principle of the air concerned and convey it through the
electric and magnetic fluids to the air substance. This impregnated air will play a double role
when it is conveyed to the lungs through the blood vessels. In the first place, the material
parts of the elements are destined to preserve the body; secondly, the electromagnetic fluid,
charged with the idea or the image, will lead the electromagnetic air colored with the idea
from the bloodstream through the astral matrix to the astral body, and from there to the
immortal spirit through the reflective mental matrix.”
And… “Consequently it is quite evident that it is not the quantity of inhaled air that matters, but the quality respecting the idea impregnating the air substance.” Therefore, if we are talking about Bardon, I have no need to elaborate on something he has made clear, and I may use his own words. Nevertheless, if doubt prevails, I suggest the reading of The Complete Works of Swami Vivekananda, Volume I, freely available at:
SOFB Community: Related to Bardon's way of astral separation and travel, are there any ways or practices, to make it more friendly and easier to the practitioner, or will just have to get used to the feelings when reinhabiting the physical body upon return?
ANDRE: Better than achieving the result, is cultivating the will-power to make the necessary effort.
SOFB Community: Any-thing useful, or unknown, about:
achieve synesthesia , pareidolia, animating pictures.
ANDRE: I do not have the knowledge of all that is known, much less unknown, but I know a practicing magician will find it very easy to practice Synesthesia and, in Bardon’s tradition, the Key to True Quaballah draws on it a lot (not in the sense the usual word implies, that of an involuntary hallucination, but on the conscious fabrication of analogies in the sensory organs of perception). Good instructions are given there.
Pareidolia is a natural phenomena, any child or adult can see shapes in clouds and rocks that go beyond clouds and rocks, and our brain, in reality, does it all the time with whatever object, whether we notice it or not. The brain is an organ of association.
In “The Path of Ipsos Vol I” I write on the subject of pareidolia, taking it to sacred heights:
“The magician is to perceive in everything that non-thing that is endlessly sacrificing itself in order for something to manifest. It can be perceived through its dance. The magician is to stop relating to things, all his deals being with the non thing. From this powerful place of dance and black smoke comes the power of the magician as a shaman. This is his chalice, empty and overflowing.”
“When the magician becomes well acquainted with this force it will start to crystallize as non-linearity, or randomness. This means that the magician will understand how between one step and another the large unknown steps in, just as between any two persons, mathematically, every other person can interfere. It is from this state of affairs that the magician will recognize patterns, they have no logic to start with, but they transmit beauty, and therefore they are his first songs of power. Yes, he will start to understand how most of the things in the world have systems of non-linearity, meaning that most of the patterns are shaped by randomness, and it is in this recognizable chaos that beauty lies and, with it, power. What makes the magician capable of grasping true chaos with his ordered brain is the whole being greater than the sum of its parts.”
“When the magician shifts his focus more and more into this greater whole, he finally perceives the web that connects any thing to any other thing on Earth, including the stars. The spiral which this web shapes evokes time, but the web itself is outside of time and in a non-ordinary reality. It is outside the circles of time that the magician, as a shaman, is able to contact the spirits.”
“It is the random beauty on the outlined patterns of caves, seas, jungles, forests and deserts that make them places of power, places where the non-thing may be recognized in his dance. This concrete form of chaos is named by shamans the lower world. But there is also the non-linear play of light and darkness, of vapours and clouds and the wilderness of crystals, this vague form of chaos is said by shamans to be the upper world. Both have their animistic spirits and the magician is to explore them. The Middle World, where we stand in our ordinary reality, is the place where time goes back and forth and to where things fall from the upper or the lower world when they get lost.”
Finally, on animating pictures, a whole book could be written, yet I am giving this interview for students and practitioners of Bardon’s works. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that author’s indications on the subject. Work, get there, then do it. If you have done all that is asked of you, you will succeed.
SOFB: Many thanks for a wonderful interview and for being so generous in your sharing. Visit his Facebook page here.